Talk:Yamoshi
Canonicity If in the manga it doesn't say it then its false. Wouldn't it??? Vegerot 21:57, 3 March 2009 (UTC) :No, that just means the original Super Saiyan is a filler character. [[User:Vixen Windstorm|'Storm']] [[User talk:Vixen Windstorm|'talk']] –''' [[User:Vixen Windstorm#Projects|'''projects]] 22:14, 3 March 2009 (UTC) Ok, but then. The original Super Saiyan was a Saiyan who lived approximately three-thousand years ago on the original Saiyan home world! According to Vegeta, the Super Saiyan could only control his power in the form of a Golden Great Ape, and his power was so drastically overwhelming that it obliterated him and the original Saiyan home world he was on at the time, causing the Saiyans to search for a new home world which would later be known as Planet Vegeta! Is wrong since torynami didn't say it its false. So the original super saiyan didn't need to be an ape in order to become a super saiyan so the information is false! :It's not false, it's just contradictory. Nobody said that the original Super Saiyan could only control his power in the form of the Golden Great Ape because the Golden Great Ape wasn't an existing concept until Dragon Ball GT five years later. The anime depicts the original Super Saiyan as a Golden Great Ape, but nothing specifies that this is the only way he could control his power; this is simply the way he appears in the anime (besides, the only Golden Great Ape who can "control his power" is Baby). Again, because this isn't based on Toriyama's manga writings that doesn't make it necessarily false, that just means it's filler material (and not all filler material was produced by Toei without Toriyama's involvement). [[User:Vixen Windstorm|'Storm']] [[User talk:Vixen Windstorm|'talk']] –''' [[User:Vixen Windstorm#Projects|'''projects]] 22:55, 3 March 2009 (UTC) Super Saiyan 4 possibly Ok then,this is a very complex and weird statement.Weall know the Original Super Saiayn was the first and only Super Saiyan in his time,hence the name, which was at least three thousand years ago.That was until Goku transformed.in DBGT Old Kai knows about the Super Saiyan 4 transformation.Now this makes a huge contradiction to vegeta's story bout the original super saiyan.According to Vegeta he could only control his power as a Great Ape.We all know thta a Super Saiyan as a great ape is a Golden Great Ape.So for Old kai to know about the Super Saiyan 4 that mmeans that the original super saiyan transformed into a Super Saiyan 4.but that deosnt make nay sense because if he was a Super Saiyan 4 why would he needd to transform into the Great Ape to control his power whne the Super Saiyan 4 is an already more powerful and controlled state.Now this only contradicts to the story even more since Goku was able to control the Super Saiyan form without turning into a Great Ape.Now this msot certainly cant be true what im bout to say.But maybe Vegeta meant by him only being to "Control" his power was by achieving the ultimate and true power of the Saiyans,a Super Saiyan 4,though Vegeta couldnt have known bout the super saiyan 4 since Toriyama didnt create the transformtaion,Toei did.When u think bout it the story is very contradicting and gives u a major headache. LISTEN!!! Whenever the anime and or manga and or fan fic(GT) contradict each other THE MANGA IS ALWAYS RIGHT!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!'''!!!!!!!!!!!! manga>anime>Fan FIc(Gt)!Vegerot 22:09, 19 April 2009 (UTC) : Another way to look at it is this: In order to become a SS4 one must first become the Golden Ape, when one becomes the Golden Ape they need to be able to control their power to change to SS4 form. It could be that the Original Super Saiyan did achieve SS4 though over the time from his death to Vegeta's recounting of the story SS4 could have become unknown. Also the Original Super Saiyan could have always transformed into Great Ape form during the full moon though Goku couldn't since the moon was destroyed. Everything has a logical answer if you look into it enough.--Alpha Lycos 05:34, December 14, 2009 (UTC) Vegeta clearly says (English dub), "But the last Super Saiyan could only maintain his status in the transformed state." Vegeta may be suggesting the last Super Saiyan was a Golden Oozaru. "But he was too primitive to control it" Hense Super Saiyan 4 would be the true Legendary Super Saiyan. While this may be considered non-canon Akira Toriyama approves it. Super Saiyan Historian 17:04, December 24, 2009 (UTC) Old Kai couldn't have actually seen a SSJ4 - he was sealed away millions of years ago. Our race evolved in less time than that; and, given the Saiyan trait to increase their power after every battle, they would have been much stronger over that much time. Most likely the old kai was just bluffing, or could sense it (or deduced it) 02:40, August 3, 2010 (UTC)]] Confusion Ok let me get this straight, the Original planet of the Saiyans(which to my knowledge has only been mentioned in GT and an OAV(original anime video)) was destroyed by the legendary super saiyan but if this planet is mentioned only in GT and the OVA then wouldn't that make it none canon thus negating the trivia? After all it was mentioned that the Saiyan's lived on the planet known as Vegeta from the begining.-Alpha Lycos 15:30, January 16, 2010 (UTC) What's strange about it is that Planet Vegeta was Planet Tuffle before the Saiyans/Tuffle War. After the Saiyans (in a war which lasted for ten years) conquered the planet, they renamed it in the honor of their greatest soldier to Planet Vegeta. So the question is: Where the Saiyans original inhabitants of Planet Tuffle or where they from other Planet? If they were, that Planet's name was surely not Planet Vegeta. 15:57, January 16, 2010 (UTC) Original, or Most Recent? The explanation monologue given by Vegeta says the last Super Saiyan (as in most recent) appeared 1000 years ago. He doesn't say anything about it being the first, or original, Super Saiyan. There are times that characters have said the legend has been around thousands of years. So, the Super Saiyan mentioned here in the article CAN'T be the original Super Saiyan. This could also take away the plot hole of Elder Kai knowing about the SS4 transformation (though that is GT and a whole different story). 20:50, April 12, 2010 (UTC) :A very interesting point, you make a good argument 20:54, April 12, 2010 (UTC) Was Vegeta talking about the most recent one, or was he talking about the original and then just mentioned when the last one was? 21:52, April 12, 2010 (UTC) :Ahh this could also be right, anyone know what episode it was in? 21:55, April 12, 2010 (UTC) Hmm, possible. But I think I remember him saying something along the lines of, "The last super saiyan to emerge could only contain his power in the great ape form....", which had the picture of what we would now call a great ape along with it. I will check this though. It was sometime during the captain ginyu saga, likely right after Goku arived on the battlefield and took out Recoome. 22:45, April 12, 2010 (UTC) : Okay, it seems that the lines are almost identical in both major English dubs. He begins talking about the last super saiyan to appear, which was 3000 (this of course is 1000 in japanese) years ago. He makes no mention at all of the original Super Saiyan, only the most recent one. And while I've been typing this, I've checked the manga, and it's the same there as well. Original Super Saiyan is a very nice title, but in this case, it would seem that it just isn't the case. Should we change it? 04:26, April 13, 2010 (UTC) Perhaps... what does Daizenshu say? 04:37, April 13, 2010 (UTC) : It seems that there is no mention of him or the Super Saiyan legend (other than that Frieza was scared that one would appear causing him to blow up planet vegeta) in any part of the Daizenshuu that has been translated. I couldn't find anything, but I may have just missed it. I also checked the GT Perfect Files, and the Super Exciting Guides, to no avail. 05:54, April 13, 2010 (UTC) I just had a thought though. What if we renamed this "Legend of the Super Saiyan". We don't have an article devoted to the actual legend itself, and in it, we could include the information about this most recent Super Saiyan, the possibility of an actual original super saiyan, and super saiyans of the DB storyline. Thoughts? 06:01, April 13, 2010 (UTC) That works better, this Saiyan was the last one before Goku to transform. The Saiyans have clearly been around for thousands of years and the Super Saiyan transformation occurred very rarely, but multiple times throughout their history. It had been so long that the transformation became a legend. That's why it was so epic when Goku transformed.